Wednesday, July 16, 2008

Alcohol and the Bible


1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, vigilant because the devil seeks to devour.

I found this well-known bible verse while reading the other day, and for some reason it really stuck out for me. Being 22 with plenty of friends who drink, its common for me to go to the bar or hang out home and have a few drinks. But as a Christian, and knowing that the end is near, should I be sober?

I never really thought of drinking as a problem. I cited internally how Noah was a drunkard and Jesus turned water into wine. I also remember reading plenty of Bible verses on wine. Adding to that I was raised Lutheran, and it is socially acceptable within the church to have a few drinks occasionally.

But I felt compelled to do a Google search on "Sobriety in the Bible", very similar to how I felt compelled last year to do a search on "Bush + Antichrist". I read an interesting bit that there are many passages that refer to wine favorably or as a blessing, but the wine is clearly not alcoholic. The blessing of "wine" in the Bible refers to unfermented grape juice.

There went my "wine in the Bible" idea, if Jesus had made 200 gallons of alcoholic wine he would have been promoting drunkenness, a sin. I decided to tackle my last quip with alcohol and the bible, Noah.

While doing some research on Noah I read the original bible verse (Follow the link to read). Pondering this I did some research and I was led to the following website (a recommended read) that made a very well thought out argument that the story refers not to Noah being a drunkard and a sinner, but that the sin was with Ham that slept with Noah's wife and fathered Canaan. The website makes the argument that
The phrase "drank of the wine" typifies the joy he has of his Salvation. Though it says he "was drunk", it is not here referring to his being given to wine as we find in other scriptures. He is simply overcome with JOY.
and also
The phrase "nakedness of his father" is referring to Noah"s wife, which is Ham"s OWN mother!

I thought that this argument had strong validity and so I scratched that off my list. The arguments that I once had that alcohol was "ok" had no biblical backing, so I decided to learn what the Bible has to say about it.

A quote on this website answered my question quickly.
God expects us to avoid practices of personal pleasure and self-indulgence which hinder our ability to think clearly so as to recognize and resist temptation. We will see that the very first effect caused by drinking alcoholic beverages is to weaken the mind's judgment, self-control, will-power, and inhibitions. For this reason, the Bible specifically warns us to avoid the lure of alcoholic drinks from the very beginning.

Note that it is not enough for a drinker to claim, "You can't prove I am intoxicated." Rather, to please God he must be sure that he is sober!


Studies have shown it only takes a single drink for alcohol to effect our brain, even if we don't notice it. It affects our judgment and reasoning, making us more vulnerable to give in to temptation. So I guess now I come to see the point. Christians should not practice social drinking nor drink modern alcoholic drinks as a beverage as practiced in our society.

Upon praying on this, I have decided to pledge sobriety to please God. It's going to be a strong challenge with my age and social scene, but I feel called to do this. Please pray for me :] I hope this post is helpful to someone else as well.

Some bible verses to think upon:
1 Corinthians 9:25-27 - Exercise self-control to keep the body in control.

Proverbs 4:23 - Keep the heart diligently, because it determines issues of life.

Matthew 6:13 - Pray, "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Matthew 18:8,9 - Lose parts of the body rather than be lost for sin.

Proverbs 6:27,28 - Can we take fire to the bosom and not be burned?

75 comments:

Anonymous said...

And don't forget to pray for us too brother.

" They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."
(2nd Chapter of Quran:219)

Keep the faith,
Ali

faithful forever said...

Hey Josh,

Good to see you back and really enjoyed your post and research. Let me be the first to commend you on your decision to remain sober.

Keep up the good work my brother and keep fighting the good fight.

Love and blessings.

Anonymous said...

Blessing to all,

I am happy to announce that I have started a weblog with very much a focus into "the outside of the mainstream media". It could be a ground level to analyze & realize in what amount the evil has got the media to get the message across thus constructing the so-called realities for all of us!

Hope to have you there too,

http://formulateme.blogspot.com/

Keep the faith,
Ali.

faithful forever said...

Hi Ali,

I jumped over to your new site and wanted to say great job; the more truth the better. I wanted to leave you a comment, but I wasn't able to. I don't know if it is the user or the feed and just wanted to let you know.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Love and prayers.

Anonymous said...

Josh,
Research is all over the place on this issue. Research shows that a small glass of wine is actually good for your health but if you have a certain personality and you can not stop with one than my advice is to not drink at all. My belief is if we abuse anything it is wrong. Drinking too much will destroy your health just as eating too much. It is one of the 7 deadly sins of gluttony. Everything in moderation. I don't believe it was grapefruit juice but wine. Fundamentalist want to make their followers believe that it was grapefruit juice but at the pass over Jesus being a Jew drank wine. Jesus was called a drunkard and glutton by the religious leaders of his day.

Luke 7:31
"To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other:
" 'We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not cry
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by all her children."

Here is a link on the debate over wine vs grapefruit juice:

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/heresies/lackeys-article-on-wine.pdf

That being said my people (Indians) have used alcohol to the point of abuse. Too many have ruined their lives on it so I don't advocate drinking. Do I have a glass of wine from time to time "yes" at home with my meal never to drink to get drunk. One glass helps me relax and in my opinion "not" a sin. If people want to judge me for that... that is fine. I am not a social drinker. With a meal at home at times and never without a meal.

I commend you for your stand on this issue and pray for your success.

Yours in Christ
Sandra

Joshua Burbrink said...

Sandra- thank you so much for the link. I didn't realize there was so much information on the issue, most of it randomly conflicting on one point or another. The main thing everyone agrees on is that excessive drinking is sinful, so I will keep that in mind.

I had a drink with my pastor just the other day, and we discussed drinking a bit. He felt that one or two is ok, but when you start floating around is when you've def. had too much.

I guess I should have done a bit more research :] thanks for the information.

I've been terribly distracted recently, and I've not found much time to write on my vision post. Theres a substansial amount of information on visions in the Bible, and I'm having problems conveying my proper thoughts into words as usual :].

Much love to all

Balor said...

Well Josh,

When Jesus turned the water into wine, the attending comment was that it was customary to serve the good wine and then dole out the poorer stuff last, but the wine Jesus made was the best wine at the party.

What this meant was that the good wine (the alcoholic kind) was served first because you didn't want to waste it on people who'd already gotten buzzed. The cheaper, watered down stuff was served last.

Jesus stood tradition on its head by making wine that people would remember. And that wasn't grape juice!

faithful forever said...

Josh,

Please don't let yourself be discouaged as we are all here to learn with and from each other. Your heart certainly is in the right place with your decision to abstain from alcohol and I believe it will draw you closer to the Lord and that is ALWAYS a good thing.

Looking forward to your next post and I would love to hear some highlights of your roadtrip with your friends. Do they know of your decision, and if so, do they support you? I still think it is commendable as you said, with your age and the acceptance of over consumption which leads to many other temptations, is not an easy task.

Love and blessings.

Anonymous said...

FF,
I was not trying to discourage him from his pledge to God. I commended him for it and hope for his success.

I just gave him a website that shows both points of view. As was pointed out to me there is a lot of information on the web and you have to discern what is true.

My personal belief is when the Bible says wine it means wine not "grape juice".

Josh
Please forgive me if I in anyway discouraged you from your pledge. That was not my intent.

Yours in Christ
Sandra

faithful forever said...

Sandra,

I didn't see anything in your post that would have led me to think that you were discouraging him from his pledge and forgive me for any misunderstanding.

I also understand your point of having to discern truth from untruths from all the information available on the internet.

I agree with you completely in your statement about moderation in all things.

I was referring to the point that the wine in the Bible is the real stuff and not grape juice.

My sincere apologies for the misunderstanding.

Maybe someday you and I will have an opportunity to have a glass of white zinfandel. I would thoroughly enjoy that and love every minute of it.

Ali said...

FF,

Basically there should not be a problem in posting a comment. I have checked it twice.

Pray for me to keep up this faith.

Ali

Anonymous said...

FF,

Well I really did misunderstand and feel foolish now.

After I wrote my view of wine in the Bible I was hoping that I did not discouraged him from his pledge to God. I would not want that. Then you wrote what you wrote and I thought I might have discourage him from his pledge.

I also would love to have a glass of white zinfandel with you someday.

Love you my sister in Christ.
Sandra

Joshua Burbrink said...

No discouragement only love :] I'd have to admit that once I have one drink I keep drinking, its every hard to stop. All the more reason for me to stay away from it.

Some proof of the spiritual war going on around us: as soon as I made my pledge I started to get the strongest alcohol cravings I have ever felt in my life. It was almost maddening and I knew I was being tempted. Thankfully I don't carry a flask to work :] haha

The road trip was an intersting experience. My friends know that I believe these are the end times. There stance is a "watch and wait" one, as they arn't very religious. I've been given the chance though to talk with them more about related topics- like heaven, what an omnipresent God is, and the current political situation. So far its proved very fruitful and I hope to continue sowing seeds of faith in them.

As far as there thoughts on my sustainment, they don't know. I'm sure they'll find out soon, but I normally don't care too much what others think of me :]

I'm still working on my visions post, and it will probaly be my next. I'm really excited to write it, as I hope I can give all of you the chance to have visions of your own. I havn't had a prophetic dream in a couple weeks, but last night I had one. It was about two of my friends, and how alcohol will end up consuming them. I hope to talk to them about it soon, as whenever I dream about someone I like to follow up with them.

Much love

Anonymous said...

Josh,

I know you will grow closer in your walk with the Lord with your pledge. Admitting that you can not stop with one is a very good reason to give it up. I have witnessed so many lives ruined from alcohol and drugs but I have also witnessed the success of those who were addicted overcome and lead wonderful lives. Once they were off the addiction they grew closer to the Lord.

My prayers are with you. Looking forward to your writings on your vision/dreams.

Love to all
Sandra

Anonymous said...

The world is in a mess because it has not followed the simple teachings of our master Jesus Christ. So many follow false doctrine in the world and they only want the portion of Jesus's teachings that will give them honor, riches and power. We as a people must be different. Any good deed that I do is done because Christ resides in my soul. Whenever I do something for someone I will tell them to "Thank God" instead of me because if it was my human self I can be just as selfish as anyone else. It is only through Christ that I am able to attempt to do good deeds. Praise his holy name.

1 Timothy 6:3 - 6:10

If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many grief's.

Josh you will be the light that could open the door with your friends. FF you have held the faith through some dark hours in discussions on the other site. You are great. YB you have so much insight in the times we are living. Kelly has such wisdom and compassion. I hope she writes soon. Nathandave with his love for the truth and instructing us that we need to start looking within ourselves for change and stop scapegoating.

All of you are the light shining through the darkness. We are growing so much in this hour and it is only through our Lord are we able to continue our journey.

Praise His Holy Name
Love to all
Sandra

young brother said...

Josh, it's good to see you posting again. My view on the issue is more along the lines of what has unfolded in these comments: The Fundamentalists have made drinking a blessing from God into a sin. By
promoting abstinence over moderation, people tend to simply indulge in secret, while promoting a dishonest moral account of themselves. It is possible to be sober with some alcohol in your system. It is possible to drink, but not be drunk. However, there are servants in one of Christ's parables of his return who will be drunk, and will beat the other servants when the master of the house returns...and it will be a bad day for them!

Also Revelation and other prophecies refer to the wine of wrath, and the wine of Babylon...and people who are drunk on that wine. So I have always interpreted the command to "be sober" to mean that we should not drink the wine of Babylon (or buy in to this world system, which serves comfort, pleasure and gain at the expense of the poor). Sobriety is a very interesting term.

I love it when Paul said, "Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is expedient".

If you can't stop with one drink, then drinking is a sin for you. And it would be a sin for one of your Christian brothers or sisters to drink in front of you. This makes sense.

I also am struggling with an addiction that has plagued me since 2001- smoking cigarettes. I've heard the "your body is a temple" argument, and all of the downfalls of smoking, and I quit for about five months back in '06, but it has been a monkey on my back for most of the past seven years. This week I have been smoking one or two a day, and by Friday I plan to be done for good. I will pray for your strength if you pray for mine.

We are called to be holy, which involved the conquest of our own flesh...it's not fun, but thankfully it's possible through Christ, who strengthens us.

If you find your mind wandering to the drink, you should consciously think about Jesus, thank him aloud or in your mind for what he has done right then and there, and see how fast the temptation flees from you. It's amazing.

"Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world"!

faithful forever said...

And then there is you, Sandra; who continues to encourage, love and keep giving yet more and more. Your light is beautiful to behold and I have come to rely on your spirit and your insight in such a way that I cannot adequately express it. God is doing great things in you my sister and being allowed to witness it is a blessing that edifies and strengthens all of us. Our numbers are few, no doubt about that, but we will be made mighty by His grace. All praise and glory to God.

It is such a strange time as there seems to be a bit of a lull while there also is a quickening of sorts at the same time. Many things I cannot explain what my Spirit feels or is telling me, but what I do know above anything else is His love for His children. When everything else fails and does not make sense, we have His love that will sustain us through it all. This I know for certain.

Sandra, I know this will make you uncomfortable in all your humbleness, but you are an amazing person. My prayers and love are with you my sister. I believe we have all been bound and connected here in this cyberspace for a reason. It is a miraculous gift from our Lord and Savior to give us each other in these troubled times and I am so thankful for each and every one that it literally brings tears of joy to my eyes.

Cheers Sandra with much love in His name from your sister.

Anonymous said...

BY,
Your insight into the times we are living in just glorifies my spirit. I never thought of it relating to Babylon and to come out of her and not drink of her wine. It is always a great joy to hear your input into the conversation and we get so much out of all that add their wisdom as the Lord leads us.

FF,
I consider my role in these times to encourage others. I only do what Jesus's spirit within my soul guides me to do. You and the others just give me such joy in your views on these times we live in. Through Christ we have overcome the world and all of you are giving witness to the "end times" in LOVE and COMPASSION for your fellow man/woman. I might stumble sometimes and I hope all of you will set me on the right path. We all have a piece of the divine truth but not all and that is why we need each other

Love to all
Yours in Christ Love
Sandra

faithful forever said...

California is still on fire:

"The more than 2,000 wildfires that have burned nearly 1,400 square miles since June 21 have combined to create what officials are calling the single largest fire event recorded in California history."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/17/national/main4267589.shtml

***

Watching Bush dodge worldly justice is no surprise, but I do have to wonder why more do not find this very unusual. Conyers has said that an impeachment hearing will not take place; there is no explanation why Rove is not held in contempt for dodging his subpoena while Rove and Bush claim executive priviledge in the outing of the CIA agent; the very crime Daddy Bush said was of the utmost treason. He must be so proud of his son...

Young brother,

First I got to say thanks again for this site, and secondly, we share the same monkey and I pray for strength from above in your endeavor to kick the monkey. Your insights edify and strengthen.

For anyone who has not seen YB's new post, I know you will be blessed by his writing as I was; just can't get enough truth:

http://911antichrist.blogspot.com/

Copy or you can grab his link at the top of this page which ever is more convenient; more light in a darkening world is always welcomed. Great writing YB, and thanks for your dedication and sharing your insight.

Keep shining Josh.

Love and prayers to all.

faithful forever said...

Amen, Sandra. This is why we need each other - to make the Body a whole.

There are none of us perfect and we still love each other because He first loved us.

Rejoice and shout for joy.

Anonymous said...

FF & YB,
I will pray for your deliverance from smoking. It is a very addictive habit and of course the cig. companies kept that secret and actually added a lot of nictine to the cig to get people addicted so their profits would be high. Even the doctors were behind smoking in the beginning. Now they scold people that smoke when they were part of the problem. I have to admit that I tried a drag (in secret with my friend)when I was sixteen but coughed so bad that I decided it could not be good for the body. Maybe God needs to add an addition to the commandments. The eleventh commandment would be "Thou Shalt Not Smoke". Just a little humor not serious but I did tell my sister that because I have been bugging her to stop. She finally did with a lot of prayer and has not smoked for six months.

Yours in Christ
Sandra

Anonymous said...

Do you think they are just appeasing the people? My view is yes but we will see.

Another voice speaking out against the do nothing Congress:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Turley_Evidence_shows_Bush_abused_powers_0717.html


Congressional Hearings Set for July 25, 2008


http://rawstory.com//news/2008/Judiciary_hearing_to_examine_Bush_Imperial_0717.html

Yours in Christ
Sandra

NathanDave said...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20153.htm

20:7 Now15 when the thousand years are finished, Satan will be released from his prison 20:8 and will go out to deceive16 the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog,17 to bring them together for the battle. They are as numerous as the grains of sand in the sea.18 20:9 They19 went up20 on the broad plain of the earth21 and encircled22 the camp23 of the saints and the beloved city, but24 fire came down from heaven and devoured them completely.25 20:10 And the devil who deceived26 them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur,27 where the beast and the false prophet are28 too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 29:9
The Blindness of Disobedience
9 Pause and wonder!
Blind yourselves and be blind!
They are drunk, but not with wine;
They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.

Isaiah 49:26
I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh, And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine. All flesh shall know That I, the LORD, am your Savior, And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”

Isaiah 51:21
Therefore please hear this, you afflicted, And drunk but not with wine.

Revelation 17:2
with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

Revelation 18:3
For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”


YB said:"I also am struggling with an addiction that has plagued me since 2001- smoking cigarettes. I've heard the "your body is a temple"

Don't think you are defiling your temple by smoking or that smoking is a sin.

Matthew 15:1-20
Defilement Comes from Within
1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8 ‘ These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Mark 7:17-23
17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”


Matthew 23:1-28
Woe to the Scribes and Pharisees
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.


Luke 11:37-54
Woe to the Pharisees and Lawyers

37 And as He spoke, a certain Pharisee asked Him to dine with him. So He went in and sat down to eat. 38 When the Pharisee saw it, he marveled that He had not first washed before dinner.
39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness. 40 Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But rather give alms of such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you.
42 “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 43 Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.”
45 Then one of the lawyers answered and said to Him, “Teacher, by saying these things You reproach us also.”
46 And He said, “Woe to you also, lawyers! For you load men with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. 48 In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers; for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
52 “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”
53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things, 54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous

You put it in perspective through scripture about wine. Very good verses for us to draw on with this whole issue with wine.

On another issue: You write that: "Don't think you are defiling your temple by smoking or that smoking is a sin."

Smoking is not a sin but it does harm the body. Research has shown that the cigarette makers had every intention of addicting people to the product to up their profits.

From the below link:
For years, the industry had twisted research into ''sales propaganda with few repercussions,'' DeHart continued.

http://extras.journalnow.com/lostempire/tob4.htm

Even the doctors were behind it and now the hypocrites make those that smoke some kind of leopards. They were part of the problem and helped the industry sell their product to the people.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16434689

So even though it is not a sin it is not good for your health and second hand smoke is also dangerous. I always encourage those that smoke to think about quitting for their own health.

Thank you for the scriptures.

In Christ Love
Sandra

Anonymous said...

Those that stood up to this beastly government:

http://rawstory.com//news/2008/CREW_praises_officials_who_stood_up_0718.html


Courage comes when we stand up to corrupt government power and take a stand though we might lose everything. Our strength to take a stand comes from our Lord. Keep the FAITH.

Yours in Christ
Sandra

young brother said...

Sandra, thank you very much for your continued kindness, wisdom and encouragement.

We are changing...I can feel it happening. Nathan Dave's call to arms has served to revitalize us, and redirect our attention from the enemy without to the enemy within.

Anonymous, I thank you for your encouragement, and reassurance that smoking is not a sin. The fact that there isn't biblical law against it has helped me justify the habit for years...but I'm finished with it. I haven't yet had one today, and I plan on resisting the urge. Thank you all for your encouragement, and if you are praying, thank you for that as well.

FF, I am surprised to hear that you are also a smoker...if you would like to quit also, try the trick of thinking about Jesus every time you have a craving. In your prayer, admit your inability to quit by your own will, and ask God to intervene. He will gladly do so.

If your not ready to quit, though, I agree with anonymous, and don't think that it's a damnable heresy to smoke (obviously).

I'm just as grateful to all of you for participating in this site as you could be to me for making it. We are drawing closer together as a group, by the grace of God, and it is a wonderful thing.

Anonymous said...

YB,
All of you are an inspiration to me. I do believe that his people are gathering in small groups to encourage and give love to those who are still trapped in Babylon.

I encourage you to continue on your quest to quit smoking. Not because it is a sin, but because it is harmful to your health. Don't for a minute think I condemn any for smoking. My husband smoked for years and he was the love of my life. He eventually quit but not because of me. I never bugged him at all on it. He smoked when I met him and at that time I did not know the danger of even second hand smoke.

We all have vices. I took up drinking coffee just a year ago and now I have to have two cups in the morning to start the day. I love it and really don't think I will give it up unless the Lord somehow knocks me over the head saying "No". :)

Love to all
Sandra

Anonymous said...

Whats going on folks?

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3462

Annon

Anonymous said...

May be the coffins are for this scenario....

http://www.newsmax.com/weyrich/Bin_Laden_Plans_Hiroshima/2008/07/17/113694.html

Sandra said...

Annon,

I did a search and found out they were FEMA for a possible biological warfare. Here is the link:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/39096

Of course who knows what they are really preparing for in these "end times"

In Christ Love

faithful forever said...

Greetings to all my dearly beloved!

Currently we have Ron Paul addressing Congress that some big things are about to be unleashed causing liberty to go 'into deep hibernation' and the US claiming that it now prefers diplomacy with Iran regarding their nuclear ambitions. Israel is upset about the latter in a big way (supposedly). We know that everything that is happening is happening for a reason and those who are breathing a sigh of relief at America's turnabout for diplomacy are fooling themselves. I believe it is a ploy for Israel to appear forced into taking matters into its own hands and the US will have to do the 'righteous thing' by default and get involved in the expansion of the war in the Middle East by coming to Israel's aid. Many will be more likely support this, but those who do not will be labeled with the punishable crime of being anti-semitic. That will be us; His faithful followers. I believe the time is approaching quickly and satan must surely know his time is short as evidenced by the quickening of events and rhetoric.

The prisoner swap of 200 militants from Hizbollah for two dead Israeli soldiers is serving a dual purpose; it is certain to unleash more unrest and violence, while renewing sympathy for Israel and invigorating the cry for war. Israel claims Hizbollah is amassing on its border with Lebanon. Lebanon has a newly appointed president that is an ally of Hizbollah and we can be sure that this is by design also. Everything is happening for a reason.

***

Hebrews

By faith we understand the word and work of God-Faith of the ancients centered in Christ-By faith men subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, and worked miracles.

11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

***

As His children, we wait patiently on the Lord, we understand the principalities of which this battle is being waged, and we have His word on the promises of the hope we have in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We can watch the prophecy be fulfilled and find comfort for ALL His words are true and mighty. In all things, good and bad, we can cry out His precious Holy name and He hears our cries. As much as we love Him, He loves us even more than this and we know how much it is that we love Him. Take comfort in His love and do not fear anything but Him.

I believe that the amount of evil that is being planned by the wicked one, is nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed by our Savior.

We should be rejoicing for our redemption is drawing near; this is how we find comfort in the chaos. Our Lord is returning. The evil one's plans do not come to fruition, but our Lord's does and lasts for an eternity. We will endure the temporary strife by His grace, love and promises.

Rejoice and give thanks and praise to our glorious Savior who is coming to reign. We will get to feast together in His very presence. Imagine.

NathanDave said...

Don't be alarmed. Whatever they are planning will fail. Believe it or not, we and others like us are opposing them and our struggle, while it may seem small and worthless, will lay the groundwork for a future victory. I know for a fact that the Neocons wanted to be in Syria, Iran, and North Korea by now, but the spirit they worship, while powerful, is impotent compared to the power of Christ. They are doomed to fail, and unfortunately they are also doomed to "play their part" like the King of Egypt, they will be stubborn and not change their ways, even when faced with the pverwhelming power of God in God's people.

The war the government calls the War on Terror is really a war by the rich against humanity, specifically the poor (Gog and Magog). It will be the last war, however I have no idea when it will end. I do not think it will go down as everyone thinks, we are in for many surprises as well as much tribulation.

Great posts everyone. Kepp your eye on the ball and remember the power of Satan lies in his ability to use fear to control, dominate, and oppress. The operative symbol here is exorcism; the power of Jesus exorcizes and casts out all fear, therefore we can live as free men and women who can no longer be ocntrolled by fear. We are not indifferent to the world, we have now transcended the world, overcome it by an act of will, and the power of God.

Faith is the key here. Believe that God will prevail, believe that this Satanic system will fall and the Kingdom of God will replace it, believe it and testify to it, and it will become a reality. Want it more than anything else because there are many poor and oppressed here at home and around the world that are being chewed up by the Beast and they need us. The Beast wants us to think we are powerless, if we only knew how powerful we really are. Our power only works in love, we must remeber to love our enemies as we confront them with the truth and refuse to cooperate, otherwise we will fail.

I leave you with two quotes from Gandhi:

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

Fear is not a disease of the body; fear kills the soul.

Sandra said...

FF
I woke up from a disturbing dream about all those coffins and saw both yours and Nathandave's messages and it just lighten my soul. For both of you to be reassuring the faithful to fear not because great will be our reward when we follow in the footsteps of our Lord just gave me peace. Jesus is the Truth.

Nathandave
You are so right we will overcome this evil system because we know the outcome in the bible. Evil will always be exposed and destroyed. Not by might but with love, truth and integrity. It might seem like they are winning but we know the reward that will be ours when we keep Jesus teachings and teach others to do the same with our works not just words.

John 14:6
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

P.S. I finally got a google account so I will have my name displayed instead of signing in as anonymous.

In Christ Love

faithful forever said...

How amazing is our God.

It is utterly incredible watching the Bible unfold.

The antichrist is seeking his conquest of the King of the South in the Gog and Magog war the Bible talks about and here in our world we are watching it as the Arab Nations have refused to take the mark of the beast and be controlled by the Federal Reserve Bank thus giving the beast no power over them.

Beautiful post nathandave. I believe ~they~ already know who we are and because of our Lord, I feel prepared for battle and it has given such a sense of peace and strength that I know it is the Lord's work because this just simply is not the run-a-million-miles-to-avoid-conflict meek person that I am used to. We can do all things through Him and I am in awe. Young Brother has noticed it and mentioned it and we are as one, just as He prayed for us to be. How amazing is our God.

Sandra,

We are such blessings for each other and this is how we know it is from our Savior and how can we ever give thanks enough for the joy and love and peace that it brings...this is our wonderful and mighty Counselor.

I believe that fear is used by the foe because it is such a stumbling block to realizing our strength that nathandave was speaking of. When we fear we are not trusting Jesus and all His ways. When we are not trusting Jesus and all His ways, the foe can move in a little at that time and we don't want even the tiniest bit of him in us. We are still in the flesh and our human condition is completely understood by Jesus who has been there and done everything we experience and everything we experience is hopefully an opportunity to have our faith in Him grow deeper.

I am so moved and touched by all the blessings given here and this is how we know He is with us. Since He is with us there is nothing to fear. He is the Almighty and He is in us, and ~they~ have spent every waking minute trying to keep us from this realization. This is our triumph in the Lord over this world until His return for our redemption. Live it in thought, word and deed and savor every minute of winning the battle for then it is truly won for Jesus' glory.

All for Jesus' glory - the One for whom we fight.

Ali said...

I watched that Annon's link about the coffins. It is horrifying then I recalled this:

" Those that lay Plots of Evil,- for them is a Penalty terrible; and the plotting of such will be void (of result). " (THE ANGELS:11, Quran, Chapter 35)

My beloved friends I have posted a new topic on my weblog. I have decided to revitalise some of those old topics though.

Keep the faith,
Ali,

Sandra said...

Here is lyrics by Martina McBride that I love and play often:

Jesus, tell my Father
I want to be His child again
Tell Him what my name is
In case He's forgotten

Tell Him I'm the woman
At the well
Drawing water
And I'm sorry if I've been His
Reluctant daughter

Jesus, tell my angels
To keep me in their prayers
Remind them how I need
To feel them everywhere

Tell 'em I'm ready to drink
Living water
I don't want my angels to think
I'm His
Reluctant daughter

Jesus, tell my Father
I want to come to heaven
Tell Him to shout my name out
So I won't be forgotten

I also like this song and it is inspiring. I went to see her last year:

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/m/martina_mcbride/do_it_anyway.html



Gotta run going to a cultural event.


Yours in Christ Love

faithful forever said...

Those lyrics are beautiful; let us never be reluctant sons or daughters which surely must be the equivalent of lukewarm which the Lord does not accept and why should He after what He has done for us.

All our love, faith, passion, devotion and hope in Jesus. Come what may, let these remain our guide and focus.

Love to all.

faithful forever said...

Lots of truth; good site:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=182&Itemid=60

Sandra said...

To all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I need to testify to my love and joy at finding all of you on the internet. I went to a community gathering on the beach today where we reenacted how our ancestors fished and gathered for a feast. Tribal members did beach seining the way of the ancestors and we had salmon, steamed clams and crab on the beach. All gathered for a group picture which will be in the 2009 calendar. (if there is a 2009) It was enjoyable but I have to admit that I have found more peace and enjoyment with all of you who gather here. So many just won't accept the times we are in and I am afraid I am looked at strangely. They know I am a follower of Christ and so I talk to whoever wants to about Global Warming, Greed and the destruction of our mother earth. I tell them that Indian prophesy foretold about the Great Day of Purification and that we should not be surprised that it is starting to happen. Most love Jesus but because of the great deception by the religious right they have turned off to Christianity. So I am very gentle with giving reassurance that they can find hope and peace in Jesus.

They are not a perfect people and have been lured into the American Nightmare because they are now prospering with casinos. Money has overtaken their love for the land and respect for a way of life that I loved. It was a simple life. The world is going so fast that I just got off the fast pace. They don't see me very much and ask where I am hiding and I just tell them staying at home living a simple life. Trees surround God's land (I never consider it mine) and a creek runs through it. I find peace here among the trees and God's land. It is like I have stepped off the world when I come home. All of you help me with your love of truth and the times we are living in.

FF,
You are so right. We are not to be reluctant in our love and joy for the Lord. I play that CD in my car and when I have friends in the car it is a conversation opener about the times we are in and how we need to be on fire for the Lord. The site you gave has a lot of information and it is very informative. It will take a while to go through it but thank you so much for finding it. We can not do it alone so it is so helpful to have all of you searching and posting information.

I love you all

faithful forever said...

Sandra,

It is like living in two worlds at the same time, is it not? There's the physical world and then the spiritual world. This site and the people who gather here in His name is a haven and a tremendous blessing in a darkening world; the fellowship and the likemindedness of sharing this secret that the rest of the world does not wish to concern itself with has become a retreat for me - one that I also have gladly given up worldly things for - so I think I know exactly what you are feeling and I know you have captured hearts here as well as my own. It is so amazing to witness and yet just a foretaste of the feast that is promised yet to come.

Corny little story for you...I found a movie on tv about your people that was set back in the 1700's and the beginning that I got to see before family demands took over and it seemed to be an accurate portrayal (more from the Indian side than the stupid white man's), but didn't get to see much more but my other half that had the priviledge of watching it kept telling me what a good movie it was (he also knows about my love for The People).

When I was a teenager I bought a solid turquoise necklace, one that has a string of rocks with no two alike that fit together perfectly somehow, and had to buy it even though I could not afford it because I knew I might never again have the chance to buy it, I believed an Indian's hand had made it and turquois represented the Indians to me. My daughter has recently taken a liking to it and it was sitting on my dresser, and today while that movie was on that I didn't get to enjoy, I put the necklace on in memory and honor of your people. I thanked our Creator for you and the love and joy you bring here.

All here are in my prayers and thoughts.

NathanDave said...

Sandra, I know how you feel. Its been strange living my life, going to work, etc., while knowing that at any moment the madmen who run this world are creating the conditions for its anihilation. And when I say world I mean this Kosmos, this Satanic Imperial system, because our God has promised us a new heaven and a new earth, one that is free from the domination of evil men.

The Hopi, as you may well know, have prophesied that the Great Spirit is ready to give the world one last Great Shaking. Some of their elders who are still living have proclaimed that America will be destoryed by "gourds of ash" which they claim are nuclear weapons. After this happens, the old order will have passed away. If America continues on the path it is taking, then the war they have foreseen will happen. It may already be too late.

Its a tragedy that this may happen while American churches remained silent and allowed the government of this country to imperil its citizens and the world in a horrible war. However, I suppose that this was all forseen, that it must happen this way.

When the Angel of Death descended on Egypt, God's people were given a warning and a means of escape. When Sodom and Gomorrah were condemed, Lot was warned. When Jerusalem fell in 70 AD, Christians recognized its fate in the words of Jesus, and fled to the hills. Its is clear that this world system is going to collapse through a series of divine judgements. Be ready to go as the Lord commands.

Kelly said...

Really interesting post, Josh. I think the alcoholic 'vice' (as well as smoking) is something most everyone struggles with...including Christians. I know I did my share of drinking throughout college...though I never allowed myself to lose control or anything, you can't help but feel guilty when you wake up the next morning for consuming so much 'poison' truly.

I hardly drink anymore, when I do, it's a glass of red wine at dinner or like one or two drinks...and I never smoke, but I have had one or two cigarettes 'socially' when having a drink (amazing how one of these activities leads you to another...such a gateway)

Anyway, it's been really interesting reading about all of your opinions on the matter...and Sandra, thank you for the kind words. I always try and find time to read through the posts here, although unfortunately I am bogged down at work lately, so I haven't had the energy to post my own.

The community and encouragement we have here is priceless, and so rare. Nathandave--I completely understand what you're saying about going on and living your daily life and working, but still feeling like you're somewhere else.

The 'two worlds' you discussed, faithful forever, are so real. The safe, comradery we have here and the 'real world' practice we have with everyone in our daily lives. We are blessed to have this venue to bounce ideas off of each other, even if we cannot do so in person at this present time.

faithful forever said...

So true, Kelly, and isn't it amazing how sufficing this electronic medium is even with all its limitations until we can be in person. Just knowing you are there is a good thing, even if you can't post as often as you would like to; life is demanding.

I love and depend on our little community here (in case anyone hadn't noticed!).

The news reported that Hurricane Crystibol is battering N. Carolina all day today and expected to move out tomorrow. At first I thought they named it 'crystal ball' before I seen the spelling of it. Hope and pray it doesn't get too bad out there young brother; you're in my thoughts. I wanted to thank you for your words of encouragement the other day about quitting and to say if the determination in your post about being finished with them is any indication, I would have to say you are smoke free.

nathandave, Thanks for the information on the Hopi and I was wondering if you had a link. That is current prophecy for now and not for 2012?

I love your words of "Be ready to go as the Lord commands" for we can be certain of His divine guidance just as He provided for His children of the past and this is so comforting. All His people here have made this incredible journey a pleasure and I believe it is only going to get better and better - even through the trial of judgements. Most days I feel more prepared for His call than I do to continue on in the same routine as usual when 'these days' are anything but usual. Until He calls, all we can do is remain watchful and further His Kingdom at every opportunity and pray about all things. He is with us; this I know for certain.

My love and prayers to all.

Sandra said...

FF,
You are very much a spiritual sister to me. From your post on the othe site I knew you were a caring person who understood the hurts of other races. I feel blessed to be in fellowship with you and everyone on here.

Nathandave,
Amen.... it has been promised that there will be a new heaven and a new earth. I do believe we are in two worlds now and it is so wonderful to be able to come here and to discuss issues that others prefer not think about in their daily life. So many are just worried about the everyday issues and they set their goals on material things instead of what really matters in life.

From a book I read:
"People become what they love, and when you love things of this world you lower yourself to the level of those things. It is unworthy of you to crave them and set value on them as if they bestow upon you dignity. To love them in themselves is to drink from the polluted well."

Yes I know the Hopi Prophesy and here is a link for others if they wish to learn about the prophesy:

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi2.html

Kelly,

I love this site and all of you that gather here. Sometimes when I discuss these issues with others they want to change the subject and don't want to hear about it. Than a disaster happens and they come to me and say "maybe we are in the last days" which opens up a discussion on the times we are living in and the hope through Jesus. Since I was a young girl it was put in my spirit that I would see the end times.

This site is an outlet for bringing forth our ideas and at times we might not have the clear answer but after discussing it here we come to a clearer understanding. When we disagree on an issue we need to confront it in love and compassion not in a judgemental way.

We must be the light of the world for all who sense the coming days but are confused by it.

In Christ Love

Conglomerate said...

Blessings to everyone.

After the coffins video I was thinking a lot about how distorted the current religious terrain is and how particularly it has been distorted by the Main Stream Media. Need I mention this: Pope says 'Spiritual desert' growing across world. (Thank to MSM, Todays' CNN headline). Its so simple, Take a look at this verse of Quran please:

“God does not forbid you, with regard to those who do not fight you for (your) faith, nor drive you out of your homes; from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loves those who are just . God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). Whoever seeks such protection, they are the unjust.” (Ch.60, V9).

Now I would like to ask a question; With todays Media definition of terrorism, Jihad, Islam, Patriotism and etc., that has been clouding our culture since 9/11, how one can distinguish the truth? Why MSM has tried to put strong binarisms such as Evil/Good, Light/Dark , Terrorists/Freedom fighters and black/white into our contemporary life?

I think they love to see religions confronting each other. (But for them is a Penalty terrible)

Keep the faith,
Ali.

faithful forever said...

And the well becomes more polluted with every passing day. Thank God that we drink from the fountain of living water.

It is a blessing to be a light for the world for His glory. Keep shining ya'all.

Thanks for the link Sandra and the sisterhood is a priceless gift for me. You know that old saying 'it takes one to know one' - I know you are one of those that really cares a lot also. Interesting that you were shown you would witness the end times as a child. I would love to hear more if you would want to share.

Who needs groceries or a clean car, I'm going to check out the link; thanks again.

Amen, Ali. Evil knows it will be destroyed and this is why it is fighting so hard to take as many as it can and why they keep doing what they are doing - they are vainly attempting to thwart His glorious return and bypass judgement. The Lord says it will still come at the appointed time. The Lord is in control of it all; just like George W. Bush once said, 'the Lord is the author of this war.' That is probably the only accurate statement he has ever made. What a journey it has been. Look how far He has brought us and He isn't done with us yet. Great amazing events are coming and we will witness it without fear because of His amazing love. How amazing is our God.

Love and His peace to all.

NathanDave said...

Ali, I think that the duality is traced to their gnostic faith. As Gnostics, they believe in the duality of nature, although such duality is clearly a perception, and betrays the reality of the oneness of the divine nature. Which is why they are fooled, and also why they will be brought low, because they are playing with spiritual fire, they do not understand the forces they are unleashing, nor the God they opppose.

Sandra said...

Ali,
You asked how you can find out the truth with all the information out there. First of all I don't take what the news media is saying as the gospel truth but check it out through the internet and alternative news sources. I pray on it and God does lead me. If I still have doubts on an issue I come here and with all God's people discussing it the truth begins to materialize.

Matthew 7:7 - 7:8
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

In Christ Love

Conglomerate said...

FF,
Thank you so much about that only accurate statement of GWB and I agree "without fear" : indeed it is the beginning of an end.

Nathandave,

Well said, I have never thought about this dimension before. you opened a new horizon here. Blessings to you from the bottom of my heart.

Sandra,
Thank you and Sure! because asking is the key and we will be questioned about our questions later!

"And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that."
-CH17:36,Quran

It remains this question: What is truth whereas human knowledge/wisdom is "polluted with every passing day" (as FF well said)? How to scape this dominated culture of smoke and mirror? What if the fountain loses the purity? No doubt that the evil will do whatever it could to do so.

Quran and violence, particularly written after September 11. (I have not gone through this yet):
http://www.quran-farsi.net/Quran/Bazargan/ArticlesEnglish/Quran%20and%20Violence.htm

Keep the faith,
Ali.

Keep the faith

faithful forever said...

We read so much it is hard to keep it straight sometimes, but just for the record, it was Sandra's post from a book she had read that I expounded on by saying the well that those who have rejected the truth drink from gets more polluted with every passing day.

I have been thinking about the opening sentence of that excerpt from Sandra's post, about we become that which we love, is so profound and so true.

Hey Ali, Jesus is our escape from the dominated culture of smoke and mirrors. He is the truth and the only one who can show us the truth. Everything good comes from Him.

I am not sure what fountain you are referring to when you ask 'what if it loses its purity.' If it is the fountain of the living water (which is Jesus), it will ALWAYS be pure. The same now as it ever has been and always will be.

Conglomerate said...

FF,

My mistake in not reading Sandra's topic completely. I Hope to be excused.

Though there remains the question yet:

As we know, there are two types of knowledge; the one that comes from the science and the one that is based on narration such as "the book of God" brought to us by his chosen people (Jesus, Mohammad, Moses, Abraham peace be upon them) .So, the fountain ALWAYS remains pure, I agree.

My question is what if our *depiction* of these narratives, these God's commands, does not follow the "whatness" of this fountain? In other words, what if we have been spun in a significant extent by the evil? Dear Sandra, It is not just the MSM, it includes every thinkable institution in our every day life including Internet and alternative sources , countless!

As evil restlessly has been trying to cast shadow onto this with such a perpetual, pervasive and ruthless production of lie and fear in every possible aspect of our life and in every passing day, we can't do anything except accepting it. Can we? -Irony attached-

Thus by "what if fountain loses purity", I am referring to perception,subjectivity and depiction out of the any religious text that is becoming polluted by every passing day; well-defined by pope as "the spiritual desert" across the world.

This, DEFINITELY, is under a question.

Keep the faith,
Ali.

Anonymous said...

Just wondering if those coffins are for this:

http://www.ajc.com/wednesday/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/07/18/cdc_power_outage.html

Bless ya all muchly.

Anonymous said...

"Some Big Events Are About To Occur"

http://infowars.net/articles/july2008/170708Paul.htm

Bless ya all muchly.

Annon

Sandra said...

Ali,
God is truth. We are to follow no earthly man (humankind)and that includes the pope. All will deceive because we are in a fallen world and our only hope is our Father God. Jesus did say that what is hidden will be revealed and I believe that is happening now with our techniology. Even Jesse Jackson got exposed for being a hypocrite because a microphone was left open. God is revealing the hypocrisy of these men who say one thing and do another behind closed doors.

Jesus said: " "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

Jesus is truth. Why do you think Ghandi liked Jesus but did not like most christians?

In Christ Love

faithful forever said...

Ali,

You are so polite to ask to be excused; it is not even necessary though. I am sorry if I made it seem like a bigger deal than it was as I just wanted to keep the record straight because they were not my words originally. Your thoughtfulness and your gentle spirit is certainly appreciated though.

Religion has tried desperately and succeeded for the most part to distort the word of God; this is why we are in the state we are in. People have allowed themselves to be led astray just as it has been prophesized, but the Lord has kept a remnant, a small flock of His faithful that seek Him and His ways and not the ways of the world, and He will use them to be a light for those that are lost as He wants none to perish. A pope, a pastor or whatever title you put on a worldly leader, is still only a worldly leader; Jesus is the only teacher that teaches the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Seek the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the only teacher we need.

Love and blessings.

Sandra said...

FF,
Amen to your latest post. Jesus is the only teacher we need because he taught the TRUTH. Religious leaders have twisted his teaching but his followers know that the Jesus of the Bible would not be welcomed in most churches today. About your question on my sense as a child that I would witness the end of this world. It was just a feeling and I thought everyone believed the same thing.

Ali,
I put my faith in Jesus and what he taught not a pastor or pope. Jesus taught we are not to call "any" Father except God so the pope has not even followed that simple teaching. We are all children of God. If it does not stand up to his teachings I disregard it.

Mark 12:38 - 12:40

As he taught Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the market places, and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. They devour widows, houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."

Annon,
Many blessings to you too. Thank you so much for your searching and giving us links to broaden our knowledge of these days we are living in.

Love you all

Conglomerate said...

Sandra & FF,

Put it on my clumsy English. We are not yet to the point I think, but so close 98% :)

Let me describe it in this way:
I, as a Muslim, have always asked myself how do I know the prophet? The answer is simple, through an institution called "Religion" which is structured mainly based on the holy Quran. However,this notion that evil through the time has been trying to manipulate institutions and twist the perceptions among those the perception of religion, I think, is "nonnegotiable".

My sisters, while I absolutely agree that all prophets are the messengers of truth, I want to emphasis that every building block of our faith has been under a ruthless and a perpetual attack and particularly nowadays it is under such an axiomatic invasion. let us be honest "They have made progress" but as truly god has said "for them is a Penalty terrible and the plotting of such will be void (of result). " (THE ANGELS:11, Quran, Chapter 35)".

To sum up, I think we can not rely on any institution anymore. That's why at least this accurate phrase of pope comes to perspective: "Spiritual Desert". No doubts that it is a metaphor of the current global faith terrain.

Thank you for the time that you put into this debate. Sorry for my English again.

Our God is the compassionate and the merciful.

Keep the faith,
Ali.

faithful forever said...

My dear brother Ali,

Your English is fine and now I see what you are getting at. The Holy Spirit discerns truth from false teachings for the followers of Jesus. This is why we are nothing without Him, just as many of our so-called Christian counterparts are because they are not following their Spirit that we have all been graced with.

You said as a muslim you know your prophet from an institutionalized religion; Jesus' remnant is taught directly from Him by the Holy Spirit; the temple of God in each of us. The 'other' Christians that are waiting for the temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem will be waiting for a very long time for it is the Temple of God within His people that is being rebuilt. The 'other' Christians call this 'replacement theology.' They interpret scripture inaccurately because they read it in the physical sense like the OT and the NT has to be read in the
Spirit because His Kingdom is not of this world, but they continually try to make it of this world to suit their own purposes which is usually war in the Lord's name.

Bottom line, it is the Holy Spirit that guides us in the right direction.

I hope this has helped, rather than hindered.

Thanks for the great conversation.

lots of love.

faithful forever said...

The hurricanes seem to be rather busy already as usually it gets this active in August, but here we go anyway...remember it is only going to take another 'natural' disaster to institute martial law:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5896990.html

always keep looking up.

Sandra said...

Ali,
You state: "To sum up, I think we can not rely on any institution anymore." I think that is what I was trying to say to you also. You do not have to apologize for your english. It comes across very clear.

From the same book I quoted earlier

Jesus taught his apostles and shepherds to be like lights in darkness, giving light and inspiration to the flock and treating the flock, not as beneath them, as subjects to be ruled but as brothers and sisters who need compassionate understanding and at times, rare times, firm admonition when they endanger others. That is different from looking upon people as subjects to be ruled by regulation and decree as civil officials do their subjects. Jesus washed the apostles feet to impress upon their minds the lesson that they should be humble and not lord it over the flock but be servants of the flock. Not to many like to be servants but that is what we are called upon to be.

Look at the Vatican and it speaks volumes to what the pope thinks of his rule in the world. Jesus preached humility and simple living among his apostles and disciples. The kingdom of God is within and we are the temple. It is not a building or institution.

As FF stated "The Holy Spirit discerns truth from false teachings for the followers of Jesus."

Love to all

faithful forever said...

Beautifully said Sandra; you make my Spirit happy.

Anonymous said...

....according to Gorge Galloway.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/375.html

Blessings to all

faithful forever said...

This will make for a bad day if it would happen:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20330.htm

You know 'they hate us for our freedoms.' They can never take our best freedom away from us - our Savior.

Keep lookin' up.

Anonymous said...

A good read..

http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/index.php?cmd=news.article&articleID=832

Blessings to all.

Annon

faithful forever said...

Bush just keep spreading more hate and more discontent all across the whole world, doesn't he Annon?

I don't think you have ever posted an article from the same site twice (I don't really know), but you certainly seem to have a vast array of resources; you find good stuff everywhere.

It's interesting the way we aren't hearing much about Russia - always got to watch what they are not talking about to see what they are sidetracking you from paying attention to.

Anonymous said...

Two apparently unrelated stories come together and create a picture that is frightening and the pieces are starting to fall into place. Be it so. But who or what shall separate us from the love of The Most High Whose Mighty Name is our fortress. We are not the ones to be told "wake up unless you want to be dead".

FF

I believe the more we dig what is happening around us and the hidden plan of the enemy, the wider our eyes open to enable us look up the things of our Lord.

http://shatteredparadigm.blogspot.com/2008/07/half-million-500000-plastic-coffins-in.html


http://shatteredparadigm.blogspot.com/2008/07/uk-government-warns-of-inevitable-h5n1.html

Stay blessed ya all.

Anonymous said...

More on these coffins.

http://fight-tyranny.blogspot.com/2008/07/500000-fema-plastic-coffins-in-atlanta.html

Stay blessed

Annon

Conglomerate said...

To all my Brothers and Sisters,

Dedicated to all of the compassionate hearts here (especially my beloved sisters Sandra and FF).

A book from "Rumi" the famous 13th century Persian poet.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1681638

I also just noticed that my weblog has been added to this weblog's friend list. Dear friends! I thank you from the bottom of my heart my,

Keep the faith,
Ali

Balor said...

I have been feeling in my spirit lately that the whole corrupt GWB administration is coming apart. I hope it is not wishful thinking on my part, but may we all have reason for dancing at Lughnasa!

Anonymous said...

Matthew 21:28-32

The Parable of the Two Sons

28 “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. 30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”
They said to Him, “The first.”
Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

Matthew 7:21
[ I Never Knew You ] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Sandra said...

Annon,
Those plastic coffins in Georgia sure makes you think that they are planning something or know something that is going to happen. I am just surprised that the people in that State have not questioned it or have they? Has there been any write ups in the local paper? What kind of spin are they putting on it? You sure help us keep on top of issues.

Ali,
You are such a gentle soul and patient with us when we discuss certain issues. I have to admit I am not a real deep thinker so most of my responses are from a simple woman. Your kind words are appreciated brother. All the glory goes to God for bringing us all together here.

Balor,
Yes I agree that it does seem that the GWB administration is coming apart but I think they are sly and we might be in for a crisis of their making. My take on the current administration is they thrive on chaos.

FF,
The administration wants us to be fearful and to hate but we have found peace through our Lord and have overcome to offer love and caring to the world. Thank the Lord that we have woke up to what is going on and are no longer puppets on a string with "them" pulling our strings.

Annoymous,
Thank you for the verses from the bible. It is not what we say but putting our words into action.

Love to all

young brother said...

Dear Ali,

You are surely a friend here. I am pleased to honor you, and give your blog a little more exposure. If you would like to also become a co-author of this blog, send me an email at youngbrother1984@gmail.com


this is part 1 of an interesting documentary on the spirit world, from enigmatv.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpOjm_cKylU&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=spiritworld&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&clien

Conglomerate said...

West to flex military muscles against Iran :

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=64422&sectionid=351020101

US Seeking Indian Alliance to Attack Iran:

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8705011615

Keep the faith,
Ali,

Sandra said...

YB,
I watched all 3 of that link you gave. I agree in the part that people should not use a ouija board and that the spirits can be deceptive. He mentioned the New Age movement and how they are into conversations with spirits(channeling). He also said that spirits can lie, deceive and come across as angelic but the best thing is to stay away from it. It was interesting that he mentioned organized religion and organized crime as the same.

For me, I will stay away from all that for I know they can deceive.

Yours in Christ Love